Do it Yourself: [DIY] Re: electrical question - two switches and outgoing power

All I read was the first line. Hostile??? For real?????

Good luck. I'm done. I'm tired of dealing with thin skinned people.
I'm sorry if the use of the word "silly" made me seen vicious.

--- In DoIt_Yourself@yahoogroups.com, S_Wilson <virtualwilz@...> wrote:
>
> Sounded pretty hostile Petey. I respect your knowledge as an
> electrician. I have no intention of locking horns with you. I didn't
> intend to contradict anything you may have said. But I may differ in
> opinion some. I couldn't not respond. I must have flipped your trigger,
> didn't intend to.
> I would avoid putting outlets and lights on the same circuit myself. I
> took a guess on the amperage, wasn't sure of a 14 gauge amperage, I
> never use it. I figured it was 10 to 15 amps and almost wrote it like
> that but was too lazy to look it up. There isn't anything silly about
> lights and outlets out at the same time. That can cause some pretty big
> hazards depending on the location. In an ideal situation there would be
> lighting elsewhere but that isn't always the case.
> Note, this is said with no hostility intended. My lights don't go out
> when I overload outlets in the garage. In my garage there is no light
> coming from elsewhere. I would kill myself trying to get out of there to
> reset a breaker. I use a lot of power tools, never tripped the breaker
> the way it is now. No matter how much you plan for amperage, anyone that
> uses a circuit won't know or likely care what you planned for. Most
> people aren't even aware of limitations of amperage. If there is more
> than 1 plug, the sky is the limit (to them).
> From what I remember, 5, 12 gauge wires will fit in a half inch EMT
> conduit. I have 5 in the underground conduit. 3 circuits, 2 hot wires
> for outlets, 1 hot was original for lights and 2 neutrals. All the hots
> are on separate 20A breakers. There wasn't ever a ground wire, it relies
> on the conduit, original wiring (from what I remember). I put that
> wiring in many years ago.
> I obviously wasn't aware of the code violation but it doesn't sound very
> reasonable so it doesn't bother me much. I had limited options for
> getting circuits to the garage so I did what I could. I am sure it is
> reasonably safe. Probably the whole doing it myself was a violation but
> I'm fairly competent and I trust myself even if you may not, just kidding.
> I was just being a little funny and ironic with the paranoid comment,
> you must have missed that. I'm not much afraid of electrical myself,
> been working with it for a long time. But I recommend paranoia for the
> uninitiated.
> Really didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. I'm more into maintenance,
> repair and not an electrician. I don't know all the codes. I mostly
> troubleshoot.
> What's the reason for the limitation of branch circuits to a detached
> garage? I'm sure there's a good reason but I never heard of it. I
> appreciate you telling me there was a code on detached garages, I didn't
> know. I wish I had a sub panel on the 120V outlets out there. If I would
> have thought of it I may have put in 240V at about 30 or 40 amps in a
> new panel and removed all the 12 gauge wiring. The same wiring may have
> been close to fitting. Haven't looked it up, just theorizing. Woulda,
> coulda, shoulda... Still could but I'm not as ambitious now.
> No it never got inspected. But it works and works well, the original
> lighting circuit trips fairly regularly but my wiring never has that I
> remember. I think that lighting circuit in the garage also feeds the
> refrigerator outlet in the kitchen. I haven't ever tried to fix that
> yet. I just know what all to not use at the same time. Old wiring, the
> house is nearly 60 years old. So I break my own rules, but I haven't
> found the connection yet. Its most likely in a lighting junction box in
> the hallway but its a snarl of old wiring with old taped connections I
> prefer to leave alone. It has old cloth fabric insulation that begs to
> be left alone.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> On 1/22/2012 7:37 AM, petey_racer wrote:
> >
> > In newer wiring there is much less of a chance of breakers tripping,
> > provided everything is wired right and the expected loads are taken
> > into account. The old "you'll be left in the dangerous dark" is also
> > kind of silly. There is almost always residual light from elsewhere,
> > and if you are tripping breakers then you didn't plan your circuits
> > very well, did you?
> >
> > Lastly, as was pointed out, there are no 10A breakers. 15 is the
> > smallest standard breaker used.
> >
> > --- In DoIt_Yourself@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:DoIt_Yourself%40yahoogroups.com>, S_Wilson <virtualwilz@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > With electrical work, if you're not paranoid, you're not being
> > realistic.
> > > An obvious hazard to having outlets and lights on the same circuit is
> > > that if you are using an outlet in the garage on a dark night and you
> > > trip the breaker, you will be in the dark.
> > > A 14 gauge feed line would indicate its a lighting circuit and may only
> > > be a 10 amp breaker. It won't take much to trip that breaker with an
> > outlet.
> > > I understand the frustration of such a limiting circumstance but for
> > > safety and for convenience you should consider if its possible to add
> > > some 12 gauge wires to that feed to the garage and add a couple of
> > > breakers so you have a safer area. Its a good idea to keep lighting and
> > > outlets separate so you don't find yourself in a hazardous situation.
> > > I did that in my garage, it wasn't easy as the garage is detached. I
> > > only had the 1 hot and one neutral to begin with. I added one more
> > > neutral and 2 hots. It involved a lot of going under the house and
> > > opening walls to the sub panel. I had to add new conduit and snake 3
> > new
> > > wires through an existing conduit under a concrete slab that was
> > about a
> > > 30 foot run. It was hard but the payoff was huge. My garage is a lot
> > > safer now but it wasn't easy.
> > > Every house is different, sometimes its possible, sometimes impractical.
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > On 1/21/2012 8:20 PM, jmr1290 wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, that worked. That was one of those times I was just being
> > > > *too* paranoidly careful. :-)
> > > >
> > > > --- In DoIt_Yourself@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:DoIt_Yourself%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:DoIt_Yourself%40yahoogroups.com>, "Bill Chmelik" <Chmelik@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > If it was me, I would just spread the wires so that they do not
> > > > touch, get a
> > > > > voltmeter, turn on the power and figure it out...
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: DoIt_Yourself@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:DoIt_Yourself%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:DoIt_Yourself%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > [mailto:DoIt_Yourself@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:DoIt_Yourself%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:DoIt_Yourself%40yahoogroups.com>]
> > > > > On Behalf Of jmr1290
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 9:15 PM
> > > > > To: DoIt_Yourself@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:DoIt_Yourself%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:DoIt_Yourself%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > Subject: [DIY] Re: electrical question - two switches and
> > outgoing power
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, the two cables originally coming into the top of the box --
> > > > how do I
> > > > > tell which one is line and which load? From up in the attic, I know
> > > > one of
> > > > > them comes from the breaker box, and the other goes to the original
> > > > fixture,
> > > > > but I can't see through the wall ya know. I already removed the
> > > > switch that
> > > > > was in there, so can't turn the breaker back on (I guess I could've
> > > > used the
> > > > > multimeter and figured it out before I took the switch out?)
> > > > >
> > > > > I know just enough about wiring to be dangerous.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In DoIt_Yourself@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:DoIt_Yourself%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:DoIt_Yourself%40yahoogroups.com>, Joy Rex <jomarex@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The two books I'm looking at don't seem to cover this exact
> > situation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have a switch going to the garage door opener, and then the
> > power
> > > > > > continues on to some always-hot outlets in other rooms. Is
> > there any
> > > > > > reason I couldn't add another switch just for lights in the
> > garage?
> > > > > > Just add another set of black pigtails for the other switch
> > and add
> > > > > > the white wire to the rest of them? That's a lot of wires, but
> > I got
> > > > > > a big double box.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I hope that makes sense...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks
> > > > > > Joy
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
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